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Otherwise known as Why Val doesn't get along with fanatics of any stripe. This is yet another rant, and no, not aimed at anyone in particular, and it may get me unfriended from several people on my flist, but hell, it's my journal and I'll rant if I want to. Right? Right.
I've been thinking here (while waiting for my bathtub to unclog, which is why I'm still awake at 3:30 am EST and posting) about various issues that are bothering folks on my flist, and why I'm very, very loath to get into most of the discussions.
It's because of the fanatics and their zero-sum thinking.
I mean, really, how can you argue with the statement "Fewer guns means fewer deaths from guns"? Or "If there were no US soldiers in Iraq, our boys and girls wouldn't be dying in the desert"? Or "A woman shouldn't have to bow down to archaic societal norms that only seek to shame her into believing that her body is evil"? You can't. Why?
Because they're absolutist statements. It's an all-or-nothing statement. You either agree, or you become the enemy.
The problem with this?
This ain't a zero-sum world.
Life doesn't come at you in black and white. I'm hard-pressed at 3:30 am to come up with any issues that are simply black and white. Even things like drugs aren't black and white. (Cocaine snorted through your nose is bad. Cocaine packed around your eye after surgery is good. Cocaine in a mixture with opiates and other drugs gives comfort and pain relief to the terminally ill.) There has to be some give and take in every situation.
Fanatics, however, don't want that. In my experience, they either can't or won't accept that in order to get most of what they want, they have to give up something. We aren't animals. We're people. Rational, thinking, reasoning people.
Or at least, we're supposed to be.
You can't reason with a fanatic. It's either their way or the highway. And that's sad. Because that clinging to a zero-sum mentality means that they see everything as a battle. "I am right, therefore I must win, because only I am right, and there is no other way!" becomes their battle cry. And so no one wins. Everyone loses, because nobody was able to be a rational adult and say, "Look, here's my point of view. Here's your point of view. We've got some things in common. Let's see how we can combine them to come up with a solution that mostly works for everyone."
And folks wonder why I tend to just take my toys and go home. At least that way, I still have some toys to play with.
I've been thinking here (while waiting for my bathtub to unclog, which is why I'm still awake at 3:30 am EST and posting) about various issues that are bothering folks on my flist, and why I'm very, very loath to get into most of the discussions.
It's because of the fanatics and their zero-sum thinking.
I mean, really, how can you argue with the statement "Fewer guns means fewer deaths from guns"? Or "If there were no US soldiers in Iraq, our boys and girls wouldn't be dying in the desert"? Or "A woman shouldn't have to bow down to archaic societal norms that only seek to shame her into believing that her body is evil"? You can't. Why?
Because they're absolutist statements. It's an all-or-nothing statement. You either agree, or you become the enemy.
The problem with this?
This ain't a zero-sum world.
Life doesn't come at you in black and white. I'm hard-pressed at 3:30 am to come up with any issues that are simply black and white. Even things like drugs aren't black and white. (Cocaine snorted through your nose is bad. Cocaine packed around your eye after surgery is good. Cocaine in a mixture with opiates and other drugs gives comfort and pain relief to the terminally ill.) There has to be some give and take in every situation.
Fanatics, however, don't want that. In my experience, they either can't or won't accept that in order to get most of what they want, they have to give up something. We aren't animals. We're people. Rational, thinking, reasoning people.
Or at least, we're supposed to be.
You can't reason with a fanatic. It's either their way or the highway. And that's sad. Because that clinging to a zero-sum mentality means that they see everything as a battle. "I am right, therefore I must win, because only I am right, and there is no other way!" becomes their battle cry. And so no one wins. Everyone loses, because nobody was able to be a rational adult and say, "Look, here's my point of view. Here's your point of view. We've got some things in common. Let's see how we can combine them to come up with a solution that mostly works for everyone."
And folks wonder why I tend to just take my toys and go home. At least that way, I still have some toys to play with.
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Couldn't have put it better myself. ;)
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I figure I've been defriended by a couple of people over this, but whatever. I just hate dealing with "my way or the highway." I'll choose the highway every time.
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Hindsight is 20-20, and that's what does us in. And who's to say that if he was as deranged as people say that he wouldn't have tried a bomb, or toxic gas, or a knife? We just don't know.
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I also agree whole heartedly about the zero-sum thinking point. I find the most pitiable thing in this world is a closed mind. It's like watching a garden wither and die when it should be growing and expanding. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective), this has the opposite effect on me that it has on you. Far from wanting to throw my hands up in disgust and walk away, that my-way-or-the-highway attitude arouses my combative soul. And I admit I tend to take fanaticism as a personal challenge, lol.
Not everyone can be argued with. A lot of people are less interested in being fundamentally right than they are in making everyone else be wrong. Some people just want everyone looking at them and will say whatever will get the biggest reaction. Some peope are just assholes. This is why debates are called the moment someone mentions Nazis. Automatic failure.
That said, there is another category of zero-sum thinker. The kind who doesn't know any better. This, unfortunately, does not always preclude them from also falling under one of the other headings as well, lol. The point is, it's often surprising who's going to be the one to suddenly turn around and say "Oh, I never thought about it that way before."
Well this has turned into a hell of a long reply, so I'm gonna cut it off and finish with this; I respect people's right not to enter into a debate, but I will admit it frustrates me when people turn their backs on a worthwhile argument, especially with someone of the kind you've mentioned. A mind is only really closed when we stop talking.
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How can you argue with that?
And worse, one radical group just creates another one. I try to be logical but I'll admit that the mere sight of Bush makes my twitch a bit. He opens his mouth and I'm already programmed to find fault with everything he says ... not that it's all that hard, mind.
The strict left and right and the belief that politicians have to buy into every stance that their party takes is really harming everyone. I'd say we need an independent but what's the point of wasting a vote?
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Those are the people I refuse to deal with. If I see the conversation going that way, I will take my toys and go home, because it's not worth MY health to debate with them.
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I hate people like that.